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US tax dollars at work in Pakistan



pakus-truth.jpg



READER COMMENTS: "US tax dollars at work in Pakistan"

Posted by T Ruth at July 29, 2010 9:47 PM ET:

That IS the BIG PICTURE!

This one is surely worth a thousand words.

Thank you to the cartoonist for that artful depiction and thank you to you, Bill.

Posted by Jimmy at July 29, 2010 11:13 PM ET:

Excellent representation of the cruel double-dealing of Pakistan. But one thing is missing...

Pakistan uses the weapons that US 'gifts' it to bomb other countries as well. So in the picture, the jihadi should be shown placing the bomb below not only Uncle Sam's ass but also below India, Russia, Europe, Afghanistan, Israel etc etc.... Thats how Pakistan EXPORTS TERROR to the whole world!

Posted by Sumit at July 29, 2010 11:36 PM ET:

Thanks Bill for posting this.

I wonder what is the reaction of general American people when all this information is in public domain. Do they really care what their government is doing and how does it impacts politics in Washington?

Posted by destab at July 30, 2010 5:17 AM ET:

The WikiLeaks debacle has made the MSM more confident in exposing the two-faced wrought by Pakistani players.
The concern for the well being of Afghani supporters really shows the amount of control NATO has despite more troops.
Very worrying, who,s watching those Nukes?

Posted by Gamma at July 30, 2010 10:06 AM ET:

Just so proper credit is given, that cartoon was published almost ten years ago by the Indian cartoonist Ajit Ninan, in the magazine India Today. The Pakistani general's face in that picture is that of Musharraf.

Shows how Indians knew this years and years ago. Shows how nothing has changed in a decade. Shows how the US would do much better to listen to India's opinion on Pakistan rather than just dismiss it as being biased.

Posted by Internet Mullah at July 30, 2010 10:12 AM ET:

Most Pakistanis see US as an enemy

A majority of Pakistanis view the United States as an enemy, oppose the US-led war in Afghanistan and are less concerned about the Taliban and Al-Qaeda than a year ago, a Pew Research poll said Thursday.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=109403

XD

Posted by Bill Roggio at July 30, 2010 10:45 AM ET:

Thank you, Gamma, I was trying to figure out where this came from. I knew that was Musharraf so I figured it was at least 2 years old, but your information makes this all the more interesting.

Posted by Pagan at July 30, 2010 1:19 PM ET:

Gamma,

You are right about the cartoonist name but wrong about the publication. It was published not in India Today but in The Times of India news paper.
And yes, every tom, dick and harry in India knows this. Somehow US doesn't seem to get it or doesn't want to get it!

Posted by Pagan at July 30, 2010 1:20 PM ET:

Bill,

Could you please let me know where you found the cartoon?

Posted by Pagan at July 30, 2010 1:28 PM ET:

oops.."India Today" was the magazine which carried the cartoon and not Times of India. I was wrong in my earlier comment!

Posted by Giri at July 30, 2010 8:22 PM ET:

What a picture ????? Even the know-alls in the DC area should now figure it out - or should I say should have figured it out 2 years ago

Posted by Internet Mullah at July 31, 2010 3:18 AM ET:

Shades Of Modernization
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/07/shades-of-modernization.html

Many Muslims in Pakistan say there is a struggle between groups that want to modernize their country and Islamic fundamentalists (44 percent), and of those who see a struggle, most identify with the modernizers (61 percent). At the same time though, a solid majority of Pakistanis polled said they would favor making gender segregation in the workplace a law in the country (85 percent), as well as punishments like whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery (82 percent), and stoning people who commit adultery (82 percent).

So what explains this obvious paradox between people who side with modernization but simultaneously support punishments like stoning and flogging? According to Peter Mandaville, professor of Government and Islamic Studies at George Mason University and author of Global Political Islam, this reflects "a mistaken tendency to conflate modernization with the adoption of liberal social and religious values. When many Pakistanis think of "modernizing" their country, they think primarily in terms of economic development and technology -- both of which can comfortably coexist alongside conservative religious attitudes."

Posted by drstats at July 31, 2010 7:56 AM ET:

The image info of the cartoon is pakUs-truth which says it all.

Despite the evidence of wikileaks and numerous other intelligence gained by US over the years including from India, it has failed to stop arming and giving money to Pakistan.
Is US incredibly stupid or the real intention is to contain India using pakistan as a proxy.

Posted by Ram at August 1, 2010 1:12 PM ET:

US behavior with Pakistan has never ceased to amaze me. I think, a combination of factors is driving US behavior, firstly I think US doesnt know how to deal with Pakistan, second, Pakistan is really good at playing US, & finally I do believe there is an element of stupidity on the part of US, to believe what Pakistan dishes out and provide so much aid both military & civilian to Pakistan.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see what would India do if it was in US's position? India still 'believes' in talks with the government of Pakistan, when the real power is in the hands of the Army & ISI, who absolutely hate India. While it is easy to be critical of the US, I dont see India having a better solution to dealing with Pakistan either.

Is there a policy that India or US can adopt with respect to Pakistan, that will force Pakistan to actively root out terror?

Posted by sumit at August 3, 2010 9:49 AM ET:

Another good one.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-08-01-danzcolor4449.jpg

Posted by Mr T at August 3, 2010 2:05 PM ET:

Pakistan talks about using Al Qaeda and the Taliban as strategic depth against India. Why doesn't the US use India as strategic depth against Pakistan?

Cutting off funds just means that Pakistan will allow these groups to thrive. The problem for them is they will have less money to thrive on. Typically, they would take from the population to fund their jihad and then blame America for the suffering the population endures. This gives them more recruits. Eventually, they will implode on themselves.

If the Afghan forces are built up and border securoty is improved, maybe thats a chance we can take. No more money for you Pakistan. You are double dealers and we will no longer fund attacks on our own troops. Fund them yourself.

And note that we may enter your country to search out miscreants if you do not. In the meantime, India can keep their military occupied without really doing anything. Just a few troop manouvers and subterfuge. Squeezed on both sides with no money coming in to the govt or the ISI. We can send the money to groups inside Pakistan that will aid us.

And most importantly, we need to act inside Pakistan against Bin Laden and Mullah Omar. This must be done without notifying the Pak military who is most certainly tipping off our enemies leaders. There is no other way all these strikes in Pakistan rarely net top leaders.

Oops sorry, did I say we would strike there? We meant over there. Oh, we killed Bin Laden because you got the wrong info and didn't tip him off? So sorry. My bad. Kinda like you are sorry for planning attacks on US forces in Afghanistan using our money. What goes around comes around buddy.

Posted by Charu at August 4, 2010 4:20 AM ET:

The consensus in my little circle is that the US fears Pakistan's nukes getting in the hands of its terrorist spawn, which is why its treachery is being tolerated even if American soldiers pay the price of ricochet. If this is true, then Pakistan has perfected the act of nuclear blackmail like none other; something that even crazy paranoid North Korea couldn't quite pull off. Left unsaid is China's role in fostering both rogue nations and, at least in Pakistan's case, actually providing plans for a functional nuke. There is no nation that proliferates WMDs more recklessly than China (other than its protege Pakistan), or that is more inimical to global peace, security and democracy, and yet China is being actively assisted to the top of the table - even overtaking Japan - by policies put forth by the US's best and the brightest. More unplanned-for ricochet?

Posted by Dodo at August 4, 2010 12:31 PM ET:

Guys wake up. This cartoon was drawn by an Indian cartoonist MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!

Goes to show the depth of understanding of Af-Pak the indians enjoy, and the lack of it on the US/NATO's part.

Posted by Bill Roggio at August 4, 2010 12:36 PM ET:

We do get that, Dodo. And that is part of the point.

Posted by T Ruth at August 4, 2010 2:26 PM ET:

Although i'm unconvinced that this cartoon is pre-9/11.

In actual fact one has not seen any evidence that it is older than say 2 or 3yrs old. What one has read here of it being of 10 yrs vintage may simply just be hearsay or a guestimate.

Point taken about the Indians' insight, but we have yet to see what that translates to. Obama is visiting India in Nov this year--i am sure he'll have time to focus and will get some frank briefings.

On frankness, i give full credit to the new, young, straight-talking British PM Cameron who visited india last week.

Its curious to see him and Obama going to New Delhi within 3 months of each other. For now one sees a good cop-bad cop thing being played out, with the heat being turned up in boiling the Paqistani frog. With India on side. Quite what shape that will take is anybody's guess, but it is a field of all possibilities.

Posted by Dodo at August 4, 2010 7:50 PM ET:

T Ruth, you might want to check this out. Note the date on the post of this blog entry, and also the blogger mentioning that 'it is an oldie'

http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2005/07/current-affairs-truth-of-matter.html

India today and times of india are sister publications, owned by the same group. This cartoonist's work apparently appears in both publications.

Posted by Sumit at August 4, 2010 10:42 PM ET:

I don't think there will be any change in America's policy of containing India through its proxy Pakistan. Weapon selling to both sides of conflict sounds too lucrative as compared to siding with India. Too bad that Indian government does not have the guts to tackle terrorism export of Pakistan.

Posted by T Ruth at August 5, 2010 1:07 PM ET:

Dodo, thx took a look. July 2005 was a long, long way after 9/11. My point is did Ninan foresee 9/11 and was Pakistan a clear accomplice in that event? Or was Ninan merely reflecting on this connection post 9/11?

As for "India today and times of india are sister publications, owned by the same group.", sorry you are plain wrong. The 2 groups are completely unrelated--the former owned by the Purie family and the latter by the Jains. Irrelevant to the brilliant cartoon, but relevant to my doubts about your info on its original date.

Posted by T Ruth at August 5, 2010 1:21 PM ET:

Sumit:
"I don't think there will be any change in America's policy of containing India through its proxy Pakistan."

To what end?

Arms sales? Why, if india-pak would fight each other, arms 'sales' would go up. Particularly india for she actually pays for them, while pak receives gifts for sleeping with the enemy.

I agree she should be rammed from both sides. If anything happens at Delhi's Commonwealth Games (and this is likely) this may be the result. Likely because the Indians are utterly unprepared--nothing unusual. On the other side, the TTP has been way too quiet for too long--uncharacteristic. Also they still need to make up for the damage to their image after the TSq fizzle. Mehsud in particular made an utter ass of himself, releasing the video while he should have known that his man had lost the plot, the loser that he his.

Posted by Dodo at August 6, 2010 10:45 AM ET:

T Ruth,
Thanks for clarifying that thing about the two newspapers, though they seem to be both aboard the indiatimes weblink.

Yes, there are more than mere murmurs about pakistan's and specifically ISI's possible involvement in 9/11.

If this piece of news is true, its just an 'if' at this point, but if it is true that Omar sayed sheikh - daniel pearl's killer, wired $98,000 to Mohammad Atta and then relayed this information to ISI chief, General Mahmood Ahmed, then we just might have the proverbial smoking gun.

Some pages of the 911 comission report are still classified. It'd be interesting to know what they talk about.

Posted by Dodo at August 6, 2010 10:48 AM ET:

T Ruth,
I think this cartoon is not from the pre 911 days. I think it is about a few years after 911. Something like 2 years after 911, when it started becoming clear what was happening in af-pak and the war on terror.

Posted by T Ruth at August 6, 2010 9:02 PM ET:

'Some pages of the 911 comission report are still classified. It'd be interesting to know what they talk about.'

Thanks Dodo, must admit i wasn't aware of that. It gets curiouser and curiouser. But then when one sits back and looks at the whole situation in Paqistan/Talibanistan, one recognises that there is NO new information that has the capacity to shock one any more. Paqistan is already the Dark Side of The Earth.

The one key reality that has the potential to rock the global order of humanity is their nuclear arsenal. The one key player that actively helped place them there is China. And in parallel to all the things that are happening in the War, including the play of diplomacy, pressure needs to be brought on China to show, take responsibility.

If not, the evil manifested in 911 will look like a mere, sorry to say, devil's walk in the park.

THIS is the reason why Paq cannot be allowed to determine the order of things in Afghanistan again. THIS is the reason why the Paq military is THE problem, and most definitely not anyone's solution.

These are the reasons why this is going to be a Long War.

Posted by Dodo at August 6, 2010 9:31 PM ET:

Bill, what is your opinion on the events of 9/11? Whodunnit?
What is your position on weather the Al Qaida pulled this off all by themselves, or they had help from a national intel agency of some country.
My view:
1. The attack was too well coordinated for it to have been dreamed up by a bunch of guys sitting in Karachi. I mean how do you fly an airliner a couple of hundred miles to a specific target? You'd have to know the entire airspace in detail won't you? How did these trainee pilots pull THAT off?
2. General Mahmood Ahmed, the ISI chief at that time was in DC on the fateful day. This is the same guy whom was forced to resign later when it became known that he was asking Taliban chief Mullah Omar to fight the US lead coalition, and not give up Al Qaida members to the US.

your views on these.

Posted by Ram at August 6, 2010 11:45 PM ET:

A note on Ajit Ninan, he worked with the India Today group for many years before moving to the Times of India group. Not sure about the exact date though.

Posted by Gamma at August 16, 2010 5:44 PM ET:

I did not claim the cartoon is pre-9/11. My best memory is that it was after 9/11, the first time Bush announced some kind of aid package for Pakistan post 9/11, with Musharraf as president.

However, it is much older than 2005. I know it is India Today and Ajit Ninan because I remember discussing the cartoon when it was first published. Could be 2001 or 2002.

Someone should take the initiative and write to Mr. Ninan. He has a published snail mail address.

Posted by ajit ninan at February 8, 2011 6:17 AM ET:

Thanx for all the comments regarding my cartoon, folks!!