The London Times reports plans are in the works for “the second liberation of Baghdad” after the new government forms; operational developments in Iraq
The political process remains a major front in the war in Iraq as the disparate political parties struggle to form a unity government. Omar at Iraq the Model fears the current political haggling and possible appointment of two Dawa Party candidates for Prime Minister would delay the formation even longer, as they are even less desirable than Jaafari. Omar warns of the deterioration of the security situation in Baghdad, and explains ‘neighborhood watches’ are forming at the neighborhood level. But it is the politicians who are now seen as the problem; “Baghdad’s residents are managing their daily life with great difficulty and each delay in forming the government makes the situation even tenser and people more worried and people of course have different attitudes; there are always those who expect the worst to come and there are those who still have hope that this mess must reach an end, however they all agree that the situation now is bad by all standards and the accusation fingers mostly point at politicians who are being blamed for this exacerbating crisis.”
The situation Omar describes is the prime reason that several weeks ago we recommended for an increased security presence in Baghdad. The politicians need breathing space as the insurgency and al Qaeda continues to focus their efforts in Baghdad. Operation Scales of Justice is designed to alleviate some of the pressure in the city, but based on the reports from Iraqi bloggers and those in the media, the effects of this operation are marginal.
Today, the London Times reports the U.S. military is planning on a ‘new liberation of Baghdad,’ which would be carried out after the appointment of the new Iraqi government. This operation would provide “one of the few ways in which a fresh Iraqi government could bind the new national army and prove its mettle.” The operation would be Iraqi-led, with U.S. forces serving in a supporting/advisory role, and the Marines’ “three block war” and the targeting of the militias are the centerpieces of the campaign:
The sources said American and Iraqi troops would move from neighbourhood to neighbourhood, leaving behind Sweat teams – an acronym for “sewage, water, electricity and trash” – to improve living conditions by upgrading clinics, schools, rubbish collection, water and electricity supplies.
Sunni insurgent strongholds are almost certain to be the first targets, although the Shi’ite militias such as the Mahdi army of Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical cleric, and the Iranian-backed Badr Brigade would need to be contained.
While we speculate on the possible re-liberation of Baghdad, Iraqi, Coalition and insurgent operations continue to focus on the regions in and around Baghdad.
Five terrorists were killed, including a “wanted al Qaeda terrorist… whose name is currently being withheld, was involved in the planning and execution of improvised explosive device attacks and allegedly was associated with al Qaeda foreign fighter operations,” and five detained after Coalition forces struck at a safe house in Yusifiyah. Three of those killed were wearing suicide vests, and further vests and bomb-making materials were discovered. Near Hawijah, two insurgents were killed while placing roadside bombs. The soldiers from the Iraqi Army’s 2nd Battalion, 4th Brigade, 8th Iraqi Army Division recently led Operation Cobra Strike, which targeted a bomb-making cell in the area of Haswah and Iskandariyah. A forgery ring, which produced government IDs, was broken up in Samarra, and title=”Washington Post: Iraqi Bust Nets Ring Smuggling Oil to Syria”>a massive oil smuggling operation was dismantled in the northern town of Rabiah.
Late last week, the insurgency scored two successful attacks on the Iraqi police and the U.S. Marines. On Wednesday, an eight vehicle convoy of about one hundred police was ambushed on the way to Najaf. Over ten police were killed and dozens missing. Six insurgents were captured and one killed. Curiously, the insurgents passed on attacking a U.S. military convoy, just minutes before, indicating the insurgents has specific intelligence on this unit. The Iraqi police and Army are prime targets of the insurgency. The destination of the police – Najaf – also raises some red flags (more below).
In Anbar province, two Marines were killed and twenty-two wounded in unspecified ‘combat operations’. The location of the fighting has yet to be disclosed, but the Marines killed and wounded belong to 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, which was last known to be operating in Fallujah. Asharq Alawsat reports “fierce fighting” between the Iraqi Army and insurgent forces. Another three Marines were reported to have been killed in a seperate battle, and again the location of the Marines in Anbar is unspecified. The Marines appear to have been “cheating” closer towards Baghdad of late, and have been seen operating as close as Abu Ghraib. The recent DEBKA report (which must be read with the required helpings of salt) of Marine units being rushed to Najaf & Karbala does seem more interesting in that light. Najaf is a seat of power for the Shiites and Sistani, and the insurgency and Sadr would make a play in the city in any bid to seize power or disrupt the political process.
78 Comments
“The destination of the police – Najaf – also raises some red flags”
The province of Najaf was just formally turned over to ISF. Zawahiri’s admonition to Zarqawi last year was “Go where they aren’t”.
IMHO Taking a shot at the Najaf police, ties down a battallion in an otherwise peaceful region.
As Najaf is part of TF-Baghdad, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out where the troops would be redeployed.
And the stalemate continues…
Baghdad, April 17 (AP): The speaker of Iraq parliament announced on Sunday that he was postponing a planned session of parliament “for a few days,” signaling that talks among political leaders had achieved to breakthrough on the issue of who will head the next government.
This is a little off topic, but I came across a great post at The Strata-Sphere today.
—————-
And at a certain moment, he grew a little uneasy and blurted out what he had wanted to say from the beginning:
The Strata-Sphere: Media Cover Up In Iraq Is Criminal
Even from Lynch’s Pentagon Channel presentations, it never seemed that Scales of Justice was really making the dent in violence and mayhem that we needed. I think the dent was noticeable but not significant enough to claim any sort of incredible success.
We need to really throw down the hammer.
Increasing patrols and check points which is what Scales of Justice does is not nearly enough in a situation like you currently have in Iraq you have to deal with whole insurgent infestet parts of the city.
‘Reliberating Baghdad’ is a remarkably awful name for the concept from a political point of view. The MSM will have a field day with this.
Iraq in the next 10 years
1) Iraq will be pacified.
2) We will have 4 large bases + an 110 acre embassy compund, the brits will have 2, ofcourse the iraqi’s will hate us for stealing their land but we do what we want.
3) We will also sign a visiting force type of agreement with the lame duck iraqi govt which will give us the power to rape murder and plunder the iraqi’s without being accountable (Japan, Phillipines and Italy anybody), ofcourse which will force the iraqi’s to grant immunity to our contractors as well, they deserve to do all the above and get away with it. Don’t they ?
more good news for the iraqi’s
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0417/p01s01-woiq.html?s=itmthumb
Kaiser:
SOFA does not give carte-blanch.
Ask the US military members in the Japanese prison for foreigners in Yokosuka. Just down the street from the base.
SOFA just restricts the Japanese police from beating a confession (to whatever they want) out of US Military believed to have committed a crime.
Japanese Police do not have an 89% conviction rate (complete with confessions) because of their kind and gentle ways…
In most of the world, you are guilty until proven innocent. Burden of proof is on the defense. SOFAs are an attempt to reduce that impact for Military and NEVER applies to civilians. Immunity is strictly a Diplomatic status (State Dept approved/controlled).
One must understand the underlying dynamic behind Kaiser’s post. That dynamic is the good old “America is evil” slogan brought to us by those fine folks at ANSWER.
this nonsense has been around for so long that all one can do is pity the poor fools who actually believe it.
Like a gaggle of Sunni teenagers exhorted to fight to the death, the people who spew stuff like Kaiser’s post are guilty of not chosing wisely when they picked whom to follow.
It’s just plain silly. Weak and silly.
Here is an article from Dr.Rubin definately not a lib and some of my comments in my previous post came after reading this. By the way can somebody tell me how many of our people have been convicted for man slaughter if not murder since the war began ?
How many check point shootings have gone unpunished so far ?
http://www.nationalreview.com/rubin/rubin200501280803.asp
skipsailing28 you are yet to disprove my point 2.
To skipsailing28
One must understand the underlying dynamic behind Kaiser’s post. That dynamic is the good old “America is evil” slogan brought to us by those fine folks.
For a nation as powerful as ours a very thin line separates us from being a benevolent superpower and a malevolent power.
I don’t know how many check point shootings there has been nor convictions for manslaughter.
I wonder how many kidnappings, beheadings, and bombings targeting innocents have occurred.
I’ve also lost count of how many times Abinamajackass (sp? Iran prez) has said that Israel will be wiped off the map, annihilated, or how many suicide bombers have recruited for duty. I also wonder at how many times Iran has said that the US does not have the stamina to fight Iran. I wonder at how many times our useful idiots will continue to blame America, whilst our enemies build the bomb.
I sure hope we wind up with a few huge bases in Iraq. Afganistan too. Huge bases, Oh say Ramstein sized.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Kaiser:
Another fact that you appear ignorant of. US Military found guilty of a crime and sentenced by any civilian court (in any country) are guilty of Unauthorized Absense during the time spent serving their sentence and will be penalized accordingly for that and any other violations of military law that were not addressed by civilian law.
Also, do not expect child molesters to get paroled in the Military Legal System. Unlike liberal US Civilian Judges, the military punishes its problem children. Military are held to a higher standard than you are since, we trust them with weapons.
As to Homicide/Manslauter in a combat situation. Those legal definitions apply only when the killing was unauthorized. Combat is legal, controled violence and has been recognized as such by international law since laws were first written.
To skipsailing28
Are you saying that the Iraqi’s not the lame duck govt would willingly host our bases or do they really matter ?
Do you really think a country is truly free if it has foreign forces on its land with their own rules ? Or should we impose our will no matter what because might is right.
I guess you have your own version of iraqi freedom, iraqi’s can be free as long as they play by our rules.
To dj elliott
Rules are great, but how often are they applied ?
This definately was not a combat situation.
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/2006_alerts/etn_0124_welshofer.htm
Its funny that you mention Welshofer. I was in the same unit with him in Germany. Didn’t work directly with him personally, but heard that he could be a real hot-head.
Last two comments from jaf and kaiser have been deleted. Read the comments policy. You want to curse, take it elsewhere.
Comments repeating curses have been deleted as well.
Sure I know where ramstein is. What is your point ?
Sorry about that, Bill.
Oops. to our gracious host: accept my apologies.
OK, you know where ramstein is, That’s impressive.
Now how has our presence their adversely impacted Germany’s freedom?
Please provide specific examples.
Thanks
Sure the islamofascists kidnap and behead so its ok for us do it right ?
Excellent question. Short answer, no its not ok. Long answer, its hard to play by the rules fighting an enemy that doesn’t. As it is, we are fighting an enemy with one arm tied behind our back with armchair generals criticizing every move.
What does the ******* in iran has to do with iraq ?
A lot. There is a lot Iranian influence in Iraq. Sadr and Badr brigades for instance.
BTW I am not complaining about the decision to remove Saddam. I am complaining about the behaviour after the war. You should see the way we conduct searches in iraq, humilating people in front of their kids, disgusting is the word.
I think I can sympathize with your points. I’d hate to humiliate a man in front of his family. I’m trying to put myself in that soldiers boots, and unfortunately the “hearts and minds” campaign in the immediate aftermath wasn’t working in certain areas.
*******************************
Reposting after editing out curse word.
“I am complaining about the behaviour after the war. ”
That quote illustrates your ignorance. The war has not ended. President Bush announced the end of major combat operations (Phase III). Phase IV operations continue. Just because the press interpreted that to mean the end of the war, does not mean you should believe it. The press rarely gets anywhere near the truth.
COIN operations are difficult and require actions that can and are humiliating and violent. Would you prefer that we let the ters kill them and their kids? Situation Normal for COIN Ops.
P.S. The reason you are getting slammed is, you are debating with people who have “been there, done that” and have forgotten more of the playbook than you have ever learned.
USN(Ret) (43 countries/22 years)
Actually, I think Germany gets upset everytime we decrease troop strength. American troops bring mucho dollars to the economy.
While kaiser’s comments about searches in Iraq ‘humiliating’ Iraqi families have been deleted, I can say that I’ve witnessed searches, both on the streets and in homes. The Marines I was with were quite respectful and the families were compensated if anything was damaged during the search (sometimes they were given money even if nothing was broken.)
The Iraqis were so ‘humiliated’ in Husaybah that they lined up and waited for hours outside the civil affairs center at Battle Position Hue City for help.
No doubt you can cite individual accounts of wrongdoing, but to say our troops do this as part of the SOP is disgraceful, and a flat out lie.
Judging the level of Iranian influence is difficult.
On one side you have the common Shia branch of Islam as a majority in both countries.
On the other you have the Persian vs Arab rivalry that predates Islam.
Most of the troops on both sides of Iran-Iraq war were Shia.
Big question…
Iraq is the traditional Arab counter-balance to Iran (Persia) hence, the worry of Iranian takeover.
The influence is a serious problem/question.
Iraq has been part of Persian empire at times. Iran would love to regain it or at least neutralize it.
bing West describes the actions of marines who “holed up” for the night during the assault on Fallujah. As I recall a marine sargeant made his guys move the family’s dishes to a safe place so they wouldn’t be damaged in a fire fight.
and yet people like Kaiser find it necessary to spread scurrilous lies about our soldier.
JAF:
“Actually, I think Germany gets upset everytime we decrease troop strength. American troops bring mucho dollars to the economy.”
I was stationed in Munich 85-87 and AmEmb Copenhagen 89-92 (with vacation to Rhyadh in 90).
It was fun to watch the same protesters against US presence in 85-87, turn out to protest major US troop reductions in the early 90s.
The analysis of the current Iran/Iraq discussions must include the drain on internal resources that the Iraqi situation has created.
Iran can only do so much, they can only respond to so many initiative simultaneously. To me a part of the current war of words is designed to exhaust the analysis capacity of Iran’s current regime.
Kaiser and organizations like human rights first
like to talk about human rights. Howver they forget that the US military in Iraq has done more to advance human rights in that country than any other institution in history. 25 million people libearted from a brutal dictatorship ring any bells Kaiser? Was leaving Saddam in power OK because he was only using chemical weapons on his own people.
To skipsailing28
Your post #23
You don’t get my point. Any country hosting a foreign troops on their soil with their set of rules not under the jurisdiction of the host country is not truly free.
Would you be in favour of such an arrangment on our soil ?
Don’t everyone pile on Kaiser for what I think are legitimate concerns. Human rights abuses from our soldiers are a concern to me, but we do a pretty good job of punishing the violators and I’m willing to put the US record up against the jihadist’s any day.
The agreement between any future US-Iraqi leadership regarding bases, Im sure will contain a large sum of cash and perks to the Iraqi people.
Interesting point SkipSail, haven’t thought of that.
To Mike E,
Does using white phosphorus include advancing human rights ?
http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/
Re: #33
US Military in Germany:
They are under German law as well as UCMJ.
Dependents are under German law.
SOFA only provides for legal defense and in some cases the jail they are sent to is in US custody.
In the case of those with high security clearances, we do not like to leave them in any other country’s custody.
So they do their sentence in the US.
The only exception after 1955 was Berlin. That remained occupied territory under 4-powers until Russia finally signed a peace treaty with Germany in 90s.
Berlin police (east and west) had no authority over US/UK/FR/UR troops until that treaty formally (and finally) ended the last WWII occupation operation in Europe.
You don’t get my point. Any country hosting a foreign troops on their soil with their set of rules not under the jurisdiction of the host country is not truly free.
Keep in mind Kaiser, that the rules are negotiated before hand as well as compensation to the government for leasing bases. Remember, that at any time the Iraqi government can order us out.
To Bill and everybody else,
I am not saying all of our men on the ground in iraq are bad, sure there are a few bad apples, my complaint is about the lack of aggressive prosecution of the offenders. The sentences handed out so far are a joke.
WP is restricted in use, not forbidden.
Ugly weapon but, it has its uses.
And it is used by all nations…
Do yourself a favor Kaiser, don’t mistake disagreement with misunderstanding. I understand your point, I simply don’t agree.
Oh and now we’re gonna get whining about WP. My goodness. The marines find a female torso on the streets of fallujah, arms and legs gone, completely eviserated, but Kaiser wants to whine about willie pete.
the marines stumble upon a man that the AQIZ left bound to a wall so he could starve to death. His crime? he drove a pair of French correspondents around fallujah in his taxi. Oh the frenchies were let go, but Zarqawhi was going to let the taxi driver simply starve to death in a closed up room.
and Kaiser wants to whine about white phosphorus.
the marines find the exact room where Nicholas Berg was beheaded. It was set up like a TV studio. There was blood on the floor and a schedule of beheadings on the wall.
but Kaiser wants to whine about willie pete.
Kaiser, sorry, but you’re out of your league here. This isn’t the daily KOS.
When the marines moved into Fallujah, Kaiser, the women and children fled. Where did they go Kaiser? they had a choice, they could have stayed with the insurgents or they could have left the city and sought the protection of the US military.
where did they go Kaiser?
thank you jaf
#38
Compared to what?
Compared to what child molesters get in Vermont?
Paroled.
Compared to Saddam’s nerve gas use?
We had to get him for them.
Compared to wanted war criminals still at large from the Yugoslav mess?
What was the action that they were found guilty of (by the court vice the press)?
What was the sentence?
And remember, in the US it is innocent until PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW.
Not the court of public opinion.
kaiser:
How many servicemembers have served in Iraq?
How many have been legitimately accused of crimes?
How many went to trial?
What was the results?
If you can find a demographic (on this planet) with a better track record, please provide the data. I haven’t yet…
kaiser says: “How many check point shootings have gone unpunished so far ?”
How would you feel kaiser, if you were manning a checkpoint in Baghdad, and what looks like a suicide bomber or a suicide car bomber approaches you at high speed, ignores your multiple warnings, and continues coming straight at you. Statistics will show that there would be a huge chance that this checkpoint violator is a suicider.
What will you do kaiser? If you do not have a reasonable and sensible solution to this predicament, then I demand that you herewith retract your insinuations and offer an apology.
95 – 100% of the 100 per day killings in Iraq is perpetrated by Islamists and to a smaller extent by Baathist national socialists. I do not see you protesting this. You just seem to care for the few Iraqis that are incidentally killed by US soldiers in the course of performing their duties. May I ask why such display of selective outrage? Do the reactionary cultural postmodern left care at all for human rights or care for the creation of a democratic and free society in Iraq?
Why is it that you condemn the few incidental deaths by US forces, but at the same time you support and cheer fascist Islamist militias, beholden to Sadr, Iran, Zarqawi, Saddam, and the most odious ideological criminal elements on the globe, who are systematically targetting and slaughtering huge numbers of innocent Iraqi children, women, and men – and who have created a massive refugee situation in iraq?
kaiser: “Do you really think a country is truly free if it has foreign forces on its land with their own rules ? Or should we impose our will no matter what because might is right. I guess you have your own version of iraqi freedom, iraqi’s can be free as long as they play by our rules.”
The iraqi people are free and sovereign. They have created 250 political parties of various shades, including communist and socialist, 200 free daily newspaper (only subject to attacks by Islamist death squads both Sunni and Shiite), a free Constitution, and free elections with unlimited candidacies and a free campaign. Authority and power is bestowed on a freely elected parliament.
If this is not a free country, then what is your definition of that? (Note, objects like a country cannot be free by definition and this is just a play of language – only human beings can be free.)
By “free country” do you mean a dictatorship of Islamist death squads who repress and murder their own population, their women and minorities and dissenters, but at the same time scream “death to the west”, give a defiant finger to the Coalition, and start building P-2 centrifuges and atomic bombs? Does this mean “independence”, at the cost of human rights, for you reactionary postmodern leftists? Putting a country ahead of its people, like you wish, goes by another name: fascism.
We interrupt your regularly scheduled program to bring you the following message:
We now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast “Bush Hitler tortures baby ducks with White Phosphorus at Abu Graib”.
I was soo impatient, I messed up the formatting.
Lisa,
Don’t encourage kaiser to run off to Iraq. Our guys have enough to do without rescuing anti-american peace activists from the head choppers.
Encourage kaiser to come to my summer barbecue…I have a wood chipper. 😉
Kaiser said:
“Any country hosting a foreign troops on their soil with their set of rules not under the jurisdiction of the host country is not truly free.”
Do the thousands of UN delegates in New York are not under US or New York State law. We host foreigners to a different standard in certain cases every day. (not troops, but you get the point).
Apologies for the poor grammar. “Do the” should not be included in the statement in sentence 2.
A tactical question.
Where is the IA (non-soviet origin) tracked armor?
– 100 Spartans donated by Jordan?
– 170 M113s donated by Jordan, Pakistan, etc?
(8 w/1 SOF and 1 seen in Tall Afar leaves 161 more to find.)
– 100 Scorpians (of order for 573) delivered in 2005?
ETC?
With the two exceptions noted, I have not been able to locate the rest of that armor…
Lisa,
When you quit learning, you start dying. I consider myself a student of life. Sometimes my judgement is right, sometimes not. Always stay open to possibilities. After all, we are only human and inherently flawed. And, occasionaly (rarely), the educated (indoctrinated) idiots are right…
Lisa
Your denial proves you are guilty, hand them over. lol.
To give you an idea how serious (insane) I am in my curent studies of IA: There is a grease pencil map of Iraq with IA OOB on the wall next to me and a continually updated print copy in my pc. What is worse is I am not the only one here doing that. Just look at Bill…
dj,
fear not, my maps were of ‘Nam, Khe Sahn in particular.
No Inet available for instant updates, just the nightly news, a couple of newspapers to tell the tale.
desert rat
The problem is that I swore that I would not get roped back into intelligence work in any form when I retired from USN.
I stayed off the subject for 2.5 years but, the press was so bogus that I broke down.
Now here I am, plotting and analysing OOB.
At least I won the bet.
None of my shipmates thought I would last 2 years.
Next thing you know, I will be a double-dipper working with the beltway bandits…
Can’t testify to Germany and Japan, but when I was in Korea, old Koreans would still come up to GI’s and kiss their hands thanking them for saving them.
But hey, kaiser, hate America First, right old boy?
“Any country hosting a foreign troops on their soil with their set of rules not under the jurisdiction of the host country is not truly free.”
kaiser, this comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how US military relations around the globe work. We have bi-lateral and multi-lateral arrangements with literally dozens of countries and have for decades. We conduct joint/regional training exercises, provide equipment and advice, just to name a couple of very basic components of these arrangements.
I don’t think you even realize how contradictory your statement is. Why would ANY country agree to “host” foreign troops (which, in your example means US troops), yet not have them under their jurisdiction to some/full extent? Not a very good negotiating strategy, don’t you think?
I can picture the very puzzled look on the leader of some foreign country’s face when their defense minister says, “Great news, boss! I just negotiated a bi-lateral military arrangment with the US and they’re going to be sending 5,000 people over the next year! But, oh yeah, they won’t have to abide by the laws of our country.”
Even if the host country were dumb enough to agree to this, the US wouldn’t allow it because if something ever happened that created some level of “international incident”, it would be unhelpful, to put it mildy, with our other relationships around the world.
As that old sign at IBM used to say:
“Thimk.”
Matt ,
Sure there are bilateral agreements, there has to be something on paper with signatures of both parties, now you don’t want the world to think we applied some form of coercion to get our bases established, not that we ever coerce any govt to agree to ur will. BTW the INTERIM iraqi govt signed an agreement to hand over 110 acres of their land on the banks of tigris to build our embassy, I am sure they did it willingly and the iraqi population appreciates this acquisition.
And to your point
“Even if the host country were dumb enough to agree”
May be iraqi govt is dumb enough to agree to this contract, may be they hoped to get some reconstruction aid. But we just disbursed our last installment of aid now they are on their own.
#37 Comment below posted by: Jaf at April 17,
Keep in mind Kaiser, that the rules are negotiated before hand as well as compensation to the government for leasing bases. Remember, that at any time the Iraqi government can order us out.
It is quite possible to have an agreement with iraq like we have with cuba, that way we will never have to leave. Also “Iraq’s interim government transferred the land to U.S. ownership in October 2004, under an agreement whose terms were not disclosed”.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060414/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_new_embassy;_ylt=Ar3sJvraymqfh7w8YrK_cFWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-
kaiser, still waiting for you to explain how to defend a checkpoint in Baghdad against suicide bombers.
You don’t have a sensible answer. This is the problem with you reactionary postmodern cultural leftists who continue to live in an ideologic dreamworld where Islamist enslaver death squads are the civilized people, and western peacekeepers mandated by the UN are the oppressors.
>>BTW the INTERIM iraqi govt signed an agreement to hand over 110 acres of their land on the banks of tigris to build our embassy, I am sure they did it willingly and the iraqi population appreciates this acquisition.
What a shocker! The Iraqi government (that they are/were interim doesn’t dilute the validity of the agreement), agreed to provide some land for a US Embassy in their capital city?! I can’t believe they were willing to do something that oh, 100+ other nations around the world have done! Sarcasm aside, this is nothing new. These are reciprocal arrangements. Take a drive around DC sometime and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
And, yes. I’m sure the Iraqi population appreciates their liberator, who also happens to be the world’s most influential country, re-establishing diplomatic ties with them after overthrowing their neanderthal leader.
>>May be iraqi govt is dumb enough to agree to this contract, may be they hoped to get some reconstruction aid.
“Hoped” to get some reconstruction aid? There isn’t a country in the world, when dealing with the USA, that would negotiate on a strategy of “hope”. Knowing the US’s long track record of assistance around the world, they’d ask for quite a bit, I think.
“But we just disbursed our last installment of aid now they are on their own.”
The ironies never cease. A couple of years ago, the complaint from the left was, “We’re not spending any of that $20B for reconstruction!” Now it’s, “We’ve spent it all!”
If one were to take 2 minutes and do their OWN homework and not rely on cnn, nyt, wapo for such updates, they would quickly see otherwise. According to the State Department’s “Iraq Weekly Status Report” and the “Section 2207 Report on Iraq Relief and Reconstruction”, which is a quarterly report required under the Iraqi Reconstruction legislation passed by Congress, you’d see that while we’ve apportioned $18.4B, we’ve obligated $16.3 and disbursed $11.4B. It is expected, as it was when that legislation was enacted, that the IRRF program would run through 2006 (something cnn, nyt et al conveniently “forget” now).
This does not mean, as implied by the aforementioned media outlets, that we will leave Iraq high and dry re: reconstruction after this year. Read the 2207 Report, it speaks generally to our ongoing role.
To hamidreza #43
Can you tell me how many of these checkpoint shootings involved suicide bombers ? I am sure there were a few of them. Now I find it hard to belive a iraqi with his family in car knowing full well what’s gonna happen if he didn’t slow down would speed up ignore all warnings and get shot.
Now to your point
” Statistics will show that there would be a huge chance that this checkpoint violator is a suicider”
Go tell that to a iraqi whose family got shot and the best we can do is give you a body bag.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060322/ts_afp/iraq_060322103336
And you say
“Why is it that you condemn the few incidental deaths by US forces, but at the same time you support and cheer fascist Islamist militias, beholden to Sadr, Iran, Zarqawi, Saddam, and the most odious ideological criminal elements on the globe, who are systematically targetting and slaughtering huge numbers of innocent Iraqi”
Should I really answer this ?
If we have to use force to respond to every pinhead who screams “”death to the west” we will end up killing atleast half or the world population.
Now to your feared P2 centrifuges, everybody knows how much we pack and how much the rest of the world has.
Again I recommend you to read the article by Dr.Rubin may be it will help you understand why the iraqi’s hate us. Imagine being treated as a second class citizen in your own country by a foreigner ?
http://www.nationalreview.com/rubin/rubin200501280803.asp
“What a shocker! The Iraqi government (that they are/were interim doesn’t dilute the validity of the agreement)”
You don’t do deals with the govt you appoint, you have to wait till a elected govt is in place this is the legit way to do. BTW we all know how popular the interim leader was the election results shows it and it is safe to infer that his policies and agreements will be as popular as himself.
More proof of bad behaviour
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/19/wirq19.xml
More proof of bad behaviour
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/19/wirq19.xml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4918022.stm
kaiser
When are you emmgrating?
Since you hate the US so much, I would think you would go elsewhere.
Someplace that appreciates your anti-US attitude.
French might take you in.
“Innocent until PROVEN guilty” is not the same as “Innocent until the press accuses you”.
I have yet to see the MSM get out of their favorite bar and report anything close to the truth.
That fundamental failure on their part is why blogs are becoming so popular.
Your choise of quotes demonstrate your ignorance.
dj elliott ,
Ok agreed MSM has a anti military bias, but I do watch FOX quite a bit, I don’t see them showing any of the beautiful schools, hospitals, power stations we have built so far, may be you can point me where to look for some positive news, also if you also happen to know where the billions of cold tax payer cash that is “missing/stolen by contractors” is please let me or the GOVT know.
Now about emigrating to france, majority of Americans do not agree with the POST WAR handling of iraq, I guess you want all of us the majority to emigrate, interesting very interesting. One more thing Anti bad behaviour is not Anti American.
dj elliott,
Here is a story of any iraqi family living in my town, hope you can understand where the outrage comes from.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/08/iraq.family.tragedy/
Kaiser
The problem is not with the mistakes made that you point out. Mistakes are made in all endevors.
The problem is, that anti-US/anti-war/anti-military is all that you cite. What are you pro-? What you stand for is what defines you. So far you stand for “Anti-“. (The terms for that is “monday morning quarterback” or “armchair quarterback” and it is usually done by those incapable of doing any better. A form of Ego Tripping.)
If you had bothered to do a search outside of your comfortable, self-worldview-supporting propaganda, you could look at pictures of reconstruction of schools, waterworks, roads, etc.
I have seen plenty.
But, that would require you to read and give credibility to sources other than Anti-US/Anti-Military/anti-war sources.
Your prejudce is to disregard all statements by US government/military/aid organizations and believe those that are published by acknowledged anti-war/anti-US/anti-military sources.
You have closed your mind to anything that the US might have gotten right.
Is there propaganda in the pro-war side? Yes.
Is there propaganda in the anti-war side? Yes.
Propaganda is part of war on both sides and the propaganda is heavily anti-US/anti-war/anti-military. That is a major US Failure. Our declared enemies brag about how well they are doing in that theater-of-war and you are citing some of their favorites.
Do Democrats lie about Republicans? Yes.
Do Republicans lie about Democrats? Yes.
How do you tell if a politician or a reporter (right or left) is lying? Their lips are moving.
Is war ugly? Yes, been there/done that.
Do civilians get killed in the crossfire? Yes.
Is war required? If you are willing to be a slave then the answer is no. I am half-Irish and will be no ones slave. I am not so sure of you.
You sound more like an anti-US Frenchman. Just thought you might prefer it there, since you dislike the US so much (according to your own statements and prejuduces illustrated so far).
dj elliott ,
OK
I was pro iraq war.
I was pro iraqi liberation.
I am anti occupation, their is no reason why we should be occuppying that country, the longer we are their the more likely we commit more errors.
Soon after the hostilities , the UN would have moved in but we refused to hand over security for some unknown reason, it took a lot of arm twisting by tony blair to convince bush to hand over the iraq development fund to the UN.
Agreed with all that corruption going on the UN , its hard to trust them, but then we haven’t exactly managed our funds properly either and Paul Bremmer is still free.
If I sound like anti-US frenchie so do the majority of Americans, even the more hawkish ones.
If it was possible we would be gone by now. AQ expected that. I expect US to be down to 50-70k US/Coalition in country by Jan 2007, baring any more hickups. Leaving on our terms, not the enemys. Neighborhood is a dangerious one and the Persians (and others) would love control of their old territories.
Original plan was to hand over to UN. I read it when it was still classified before the invasion. The problem with the UN was our insistence in excluding the countries that violated the law and provided weapons to Saddam while he was embargoed.
E.G.
– French anti-tank missiles produced in 2002 in the hands of the Republican Guard. (Weapons manufacture of that system is French Government Owned.)
– Russian GPS jammers and intelligence before and during operations 2002/2003. (Russian government owned.)
– See oil-for-food for more comprehensive list of crooks that we did not want rewarded…
Since Russia and France have veto authority, UN became a no-go.
We did botch the first year in terms of re-establishing IA and government but, we did not expect the IA/IP to quit en-mass.
When we anounced the disbanding of IA, we were admitting reality (it was already gone).
Since then we have been playing catch up.
Politicaly, I think parlimentry system was wrong for Iraq but, we did not dictate how they organized. We let them chose. That may haunt US.
In an advisory/air/air defense role, we will be present for at least 5 more years. While IA is comming along, IP has major problems (State/UN had lead on that until Jun 2005 when they gave up and handed off their mistakes to US Military to fix.). Also, Iraq’s Air Force is a small transport command at this time.
If you payed close attention, you would see the drawdown (“as the Iraqis stand up…”) in progress. By 2008’s elections, we will have
PS Fox is as incompetent as the rest.
Hickup on comment 80. Last two paras should read:
If you payed close attention, you would see the drawdown (“as the Iraqis stand up…”) in progress. By 2008’s elections, we will have less than 25k in-country (mostly Air Force).
Afghanistan is actually harder going than Iraq yet, it is ignored by most. That and what is going on in Pakistan.
Kaiser
I realize that you do not believe in reading military press releases but, these even have photos:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/iraq/rebuilding.html
This is part of the “winning the hearts and minds” portion of the effort that press ignores yet, the info is out there.
As to the corruption problem, I have yet to see a non-corrupt system. Mid-east is particularly bad. Don’t like it. Stuck with it…
As to why the press does not use most military press releases:
They consider military press releases to be UNCONFIRMED and do not use them unless they have confirmation.
How they are suppossed to get confirmation in their hotel bar in Baghdad, is never explained.
On the other side, Al Quida releases are always used…
If you are curious about the weekly (Thurs mornings normally) military press brief in Baghdad:
http://www.pentagonchannel.mil
MSM usually use the worst sound bite they can find from the 30 minute brief or ignore it completly.
kaiser,
Re: #72. So, we just dictate to the appointed gov’t how we’re going to run things? Is that it? In a word, doubtful.
Re: #79. By holding an “anti-occupation” stance, are you implying that we should have picked up and left after we overthrew Saddam? You are aware that we had/have legal obligations under int’l law to NOT do that.
As for the UN, it is quite an understatement to say the UN cannot be trusted, ESPECIALLY w/r/t Iraq (see $20B Oil-For-Food scandal).
Also recall a couple of other things re: UN. One, on May 22, 2003, the UNSC passed UNSCR 1483 which lifted sanctions on Iraq and granted the US interim governing powers. The vote was 14-0 (Syria abstained). Here’s the link, if you’re interested.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/storyAr.asp?NewsID=7162&Cr=iraq&Cr1=
Two, on August 19, 2003, the UN’s HQ in Baghdad were bombed, killing 22, including their Special Rep, Sergio Vieira de Mello. How did the UN respond? They left the country, saying it was too dangerous for their staff. Is that who we should have handed over security to? An organization that runs at the first sign of trouble?
As for our misspent funds, please elaborate. If you expected a total of zero dollars to get syphoned off in the wrong direction, then you don’t understand reality, esp. reality in that part of the world. As dj said, corruption is pretty common, like it or not.
Good points, dj. Agreed on Fox as well. They used to be different but unfortunately have morphed into a shape largely like the rest, which is why I don’t turn the TV on anymore. For info and analysis that is more than skin deep, blogs increasingly do a better job. This site is a great example of that.
Matt,
Ofcourse I expected corruption during the rebuilding process but not to the tune of 9 billion that we know of, we don’t want to compete with the UN do we ?
Also this pinhead got a medal of honour for his incompetence and he got to write a book about it too.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/
A couple of months ago I watched a town hall meeting on c-span, featuring murtha. One of the soldiers spoke about mismangement and corruption in iraq. He said if a soldier misplaces $50, he is held accountable and how the civilian leadership can burn money with no consequence.
where is the outrage on this topic ?
Except for a few lefty blogs (ofcourse they have their agenda) nobody is covering it and its gonna turn cold pretty soon.
kaiser
Take a closer look at your own Senator/Representative.
“We have the best congress money can buy.”
Sam Clemmens said that in the 1870s and it is still true.
You are talking about chump change by US Congressional standards…
The military holds itself to and is held to a higher standard than the crooks we idiots elect to office. You want to cast stones, start in your own district…